Royal Caribbean updates new cruise ship delivery schedule

In:
01 Mar 2021
By: 
Matt Hochberg

The global health crisis has wreaked havoc with Royal Caribbean's plans, including its schedule of new cruise ships.

One of the big questions throughout the cruise industry shutdown has been what impact will there be on new cruise ship orders.

As part of Royal Caribbean Group's fourth quarter 2020 earnings filing, the company included an updated schedule for new cruise ship deliveries.

For a while we have known Odyssey of the Seas was delayed until 2021, and Wonder of the Seas delayed until 2022. But what about the rest of the schedule?

Prior to the global health crisis, Royal Caribbean had orders placed for a number of new cruise ships, including a brand new class of ships, known as the Icon Class.

As of December 31, 2020 the schedule for new ship order delivery is as follows:

"Wonder of the Seas and our sixth Oasis-class ship, which are expected to be delivered in the first quarter of 2022 and the second quarter of 2024, respectively, and the first three ships of a new generation, known as our Icon-class, which are expected to be delivered in the third quarter of 2023, and the second quarters of 2025 and 2026, respectively."

  • Odyssey of the Seas delivery in 1st Quarter 2021
  • Wonder of the Seas delivery in 1st Quarter 2022
  • Unnamed first Icon class ship delivery in 3rd Quarter 2023
  • Unnamed sixth Oasis class ship delivery in 2nd Quarter 2024
  • Unnamed second Icon class ship delivery in 2nd Quarter 2025
  • Unnamed third Icon class ship delivery in 2nd Quarter 2026

This filing confirms that orders are still in place for the three Icon Class ships, as well as a sixth unnamed Oasis-Class ship. Moreover, the original plans for these ship deliveries is essentially pushed back by a year across the board.

Read moreWhy are new cruise ships still being built?

In addition, the filing adds some details about the next new class of cruise ship.

Ever since Royal Caribbean announced the Icon Class would be its next-generation of cruise ship, details have been scarce.

The Icon Class ships will be built at Meyer Turku and be powered by liquefied natural gas (LNG) and fuel cell technology.

Liquefied natural gas (LNG) is envisioned as the primary fuel for the new vessels, which would dramatically reduce or even eliminate emission of nitrogen oxide (NOX), sulphur oxide (SOX) and particulates, as well as cutting carbon dioxide (CO2). The ICON Class will also introduce fuel cell technology, which in combination with hull air lubrication means that the ships could potentially be some of the most fuel efficient cruise vessels ever constructed. 

With the new filing, we know its capacity will be 5,600. In the original announcement, Royal Caribbean said it would accommodate approximately 5,000 passengers. This would make the Icon class ships larger than the Quantum Class ships, but slightly smaller than the Oasis Class ships.

Royal Caribbean will debut new Odyssey of the Seas cruise ship sailing from Israel

In:
01 Mar 2021
By: 
Matt Hochberg

We now know which Royal Caribbean cruise ship will be the next to sail again, and it will be the newest ship in the fleet.

Odyssey of the Seas will join Royal Caribbean's fleet and offer her very first sailings from Israel in May 2021.

Royal Caribbean announced Israelis can sail on 3- to 7-night sailings departing from Haifa, Israel to the Greek islands and Cyprus. 

At this time, only Israeli residents living in Israel and who are vaccinated will be able to sail.

The new sailings will go on sale on Tuesday, March 9.

In addition, both guests and crew members above the age of 16 will be required to to be fully vaccinated against COVID-19. Royal Caribbean says more details on additional health and safety measures to be implemented will be announced at a later date.

"We are thrilled to debut Royal Caribbean cruises from Israel with our newest and most innovative ship, Odyssey of the Seas. Israeli travelers will be looking to get away, relax with total peace of mind, and enjoy the travel experiences they are missing dearly; and that is what we do best," said Michael Bayley, president and CEO, Royal Caribbean International. "Sailing from Israel is an opportunity we have had our sights on for quite some time. We greatly appreciate the government of Israel for their collaboration and confidence in us to deliver memorable cruise experiences to their residents, and look forward to delivering on that promise aboard our newest ship – the first 'Green Island' at sea." 

Royal Caribbean's announcement of Odyssey sailing from Israel comes a week after cruise line executives dropped a major hint the next ship to restart cruises would likely restart outside the United States.

According to Israeli travel agents, here are some of the sailings:

  • 3 night seas days  only 4-June, 11 June
  • 4 night seas days only  7-June
  • 4 nights Haifa ,Limassol , Rhodes , Haifa 28-June
  • 4 nights Haifa, Rhodes , Mikonos ,Haifa 14-June, 12-Jul, 27-Aug , 5-Sep , 9-Sep, 13-Sep , 22-Sep, 26-Sep
  • 5 nights Haifa, Rhodes , Athens, Mikonos, Haifa 18-June , 2-Jul
  • 5 nights Haifa, Athens  ,Mikonos, Haifa 23-June 17-Sep
  • 5 nights Haifa , Rhodes, Santorini Athens, Haifa 7-Jul , 31-Aug
  • 7 nights Haifa, Limassol , Athens , Santorini , Mikonos , Haifa  16,23,30 – Jul  6,13,20 Aug

Cancelled European season

As a result of the redeployment, previously scheduled Odyssey of the Seas sailings in Europe are cancelled.

Royal Caribbean issued this statement about making the change, "The current situation throughout Europe is still uncertain, and Israel has been praised for their effective COVID-19 management by global experts and communities, and thus is well-placed to resume cruise operations."

Guests currently confirmed on an impacted European cruise departing May 9 — October 28, 2021 will have the option to request a refund of the funds paid or leverage Lift & Shift to move to any 2022 sailing of their choice; otherwise, a 125% Future Cruise Credit (FCC) will be automatically administered.

A special $100 Onboard Credit per stateroom will be issued to those guests selecting a Future Cruise Credit or the Lift & Shift option. 

Hint of this news

During Royal Caribbean's fourth quarter earnings call, Chief Financial Officer Jason Liberty told investors a second ship could sail outside of the U.S. soon, "We are already operating Quantum of the Seas in Singapore, and our second ship in the water could also be outside of the US."

Jason Liberty told investors during the call his company is working with governments around the world about opening back up, "With regards to ship starting in Australia or China or Europe or elsewhere, for example, we literally are in discussions globally around the world with different governments and looking at where they are with COVID and vaccines, et cetera, et cetera."

"I think the point is that there's a lot of opportunity that's starting to open up globally in terms of what's occurring with COVID. And so we are in discussions around the world."

Odyssey of the Seas just completed her conveyance, marking a major milestone in her construction.

Odyssey of the Seas comes in at 169,000 GT and measures a length of 347.1 meters, and has a capacity of more than 5,000 passengers.

She is scheduled to come to the United States for her North American debut in November 2021, where she will sail from Port Everglades.

Royal Caribbean Post Round-Up: February 28, 2021

In:
28 Feb 2021
By: 
Matt Hochberg

Happy Sunday, and I hope you had a great week. It was a busy week of Royal Caribbean fun, and I have a round-up of all of it in this hand-dandy blog post.

We might finally be getting close to test sailings beginning.

Royal Caribbean International President and CEO Michael Bayley told Wall Street investors during an earnings call an update on where things stand with the CDC.

Mr. Bayley said that Royal Caribbean has been in "regular communication" with the CDC and expects to get technical instructions on what each ship needs to do in order to prepare itself for test cruises.

"We're literally expecting the technical specifications any day soon," Mr. Bayley told investors.

Royal Caribbean News

New RCB Video: How to get a FREE Royal Caribbean cruise

Have you subscribed to the Royal Caribbean Blog YouTube Channel? We share some great videos there regularly, all about taking a Royal Caribbean cruise! This week, we are sharing our latest video — How to get a FREE Royal Caribbean cruise — and don’t forget to subscribe here.

Royal Caribbean Blog Podcast

The 395th episode of the Royal Caribbean Blog Podcast is now available featuring a look at Bronwynn's sailing to the ABC islands and Labadee.

In this episode, we have a cruise story from Navigator of the Seas in 2017 on a fantastic itinerary to the Southern Caribbean.

Please feel free to subscribe via iTunes or RSS, and head over to rate and review the podcast on iTunes if you can! We’d appreciate it.

Royal Caribbean releases Short Caribbean 2022-2023 cruise sailings

Royal Caribbean has released its Short Caribbean sailings for Summer 2022 - Winter 2023, which are now available for booking.

These new getaway cruises have more ships sailing with more frequent sailings in 2022-2023 across eight ships from Florida and Texas.

The most noticeable change for these short sailings is all three Freedom Class cruise ships will sail from Florida.

First look at Odyssey of the Seas conveyance

In:
27 Feb 2021
By: 
Matt Hochberg

Royal Caribbean's next new cruise ship is on the move!

Odyssey of the Seas began her conveyance to the North Sea early on Saturday morning to delight of many cruise fans.

The ship began her slow journey down the Ems River in Germany, and local photographers have begun sharing photos.

Photos by Jeroen Houtman

RoyalCaribbeanBlog reader Marga has also been sharing photos from the conveyance on our forums.

Odyssey of the Seas is moving backwards down the Ems River on her way to Eemshaven, Netherlands.

The river has been cleared of obstacles and other traffic to make way for the massive new cruise ship.

Once Odyssey of the Seas reaches Eemshaven, she will begin her sea trials in the North Sea to test out the ship's functionality and ensure all systems are working properly.

Royal Caribbean begins to roll out My Royal Cruise cruise planner upgrade

In:
26 Feb 2021
By: 
Matt Hochberg

Planning your next Royal Caribbean cruise is going to look a little bit different.

Royal Caribbean is beginning to debut its next generation cruise planning software, called My Royal Cruise.

My Royal Cruise is a new look to the website guests access to browse options and add-ons for their sailing.

It will replace the existing Cruise Planner platform on a roll out schedule beginning with Mariner of the Seas departures that sail departing October 2021, Symphony of the Seas & Odyssey of the Seas departing January 2022, Oasis of the Seas  & Harmony of the Seas departing February 2022 and beyond.

My Royal Cruise will eventually roll out to more ships across the fleet, with the intention of replacing the legacy Cruise Planner site.

The cruise line indicated a similar option will become available for sister brand Celebrity Cruises with the My Celebrity Cruise site.

Read moreEverything you should book before the cruise to avoid it being sold out

What's different

New look

Old look

My Royal Cruise features a cleaner look, which takes advantage of contemporary web design.  It is simple and functional, while still visually appealing.

Read moreThe Worst Ways to Spend Your Money on Royal Caribbean

There is also a tighter integration between cruise add-ons, check-in, and more. The goal was to make it more intuitive for guests to plan their sailing.

You can still do all the things before, but with a new look to it that makes navigation simpler.

Why should you plan your cruise with My Royal Cruise?

Royal Caribbean regularly offers discounts when guests purchase certain packages and add-ons before the cruise.

Booking shore excursions, drink packages, wifi and more is simple, and it is the best way to save money on the overall cost of the cruise.

Everything you purchase before the cruise is fully refundable if you change your mind, or if you spot a better price later.

In addition, Oasis and Quantum Class cruise ships allow you to pre-book entertainment on My Royal Cruise. This will ensure a spot for the most in-demand activities onboard.

What do you think of the new look? Let us know in the comments.

Odyssey of the Seas scheduled for conveyance on February 27

In:
26 Feb 2021
By: 
Matt Hochberg

It now appears Odyssey of the Seas will begin her journey to the sea this weekend.

A public notice for sailors in Germany confirms a series of closures to facilitate the transfer of Royal Caribbean's next new cruise ship from her shipyard in Papenburg to the North Sea.

The conveyance will take place on the Ems River beginning at 4am on February 27, 2021. The ship is expected to pass through the Gandersum Ems barrier on February 28, 2021 at around 00:30 a.m.

A conveyance is the process of moving a cruise ship from an inland shipyard to a coastal port.

According to the waterway and shipping administration, the Ems will be dammed from Friday noon to Sunday. Damming the river will raise the water level between Papenburg and Gandersum to assist with the movement.

Neither Meyer Werft nor Royal Caribbean has publicly commented on the conveyance, but it is believed Meyer Werft does not want to make a big deal about the event in order to prevent crowds gathering as the ship passes by.

How Odyssey of the Seas will get to the sea

The journey to the sea for Odyssey of the Seas is a mix of engineering, science, and a lot of coordination.

Two tugs will take Odyssey in reverse up the river Ems to the North Sea. 

Schedule: February 27, 2021

Approx. 04:00 a.m.: ship passage begins (Papenburg)
Approx. 12:00 p.m.: ship passes the Jann Berghaus bridge (Leer)
Approx.  00:30 a.m.: arrival at the river Ems barrier (Gandersum)

After completing technical and nautical sea trials on the North Sea, the ship will be handed over to Royal Caribbean in April.

Odyssey of the Seas comes in at 169,000 GT and measures a length of 347.1 meters, and has a capacity of more than 5,000 passengers.

When she joins the fleet, Odyssey of the Seas will be the fifth cruise ship in the Quantum/Quantum Ultra Class to be built at Meyer Werft.

New study shows "exceptionally low" risk of airborne particles on cruise ships

In:
26 Feb 2021
By: 
Matt Hochberg

A recent study has debunked yet another stereotype about cruises, this time about the air circulation onboard.

An independent study conducted by University of Nebraska Medical Center (UNMC) and the National Strategic Research Institute (NSRI) on Oasis of the Seas looked at air flow, and movement of particulate matter indoors.

The study was conducted in July 2020 right in the middle of the global health crisis to evaluate how a cruise ship's HVAC system worked and what risks were posed to guests and crew members.

The study found the risk associated with transmission of airborne particles between spaces, through the HVAC system, is exceptionally low and undetectable both in the air and on surfaces.

How they tested

The team of five medical scientists focused on the effectiveness and efficiency of ship air management strategies – ventilation, filtration and supply – and examined air flow across different areas of the ship, including guest staterooms, crew staterooms, lounges and other public spaces. 

They looked at guest staterooms, the casino, ice rink, comedy club, and crew quarters, and proposed to release billions of microspheres – simulating SARS-CoV-2 aerosols – to be released in separate locations across the ship.

The microspheres used in this study are spherical particles made of a plastic polymer that are coated with unique DNA barcodes so that they can be easily detected.

In this study, no exchange of aerosol particles was observed between spaces only connected by the ventilation system (such as adjacent staterooms, both crew and guest), indicating that the likelihood of aerosol exchange between adjacent rooms is very unlikely

In public spaces, the casino performed the best, since it has built-in filtering for tobacco smoke.  Nonetheless, all venues showed no evidence of aerosol or surface contamination. In general, particles released in the public areas were not observable after 15 minutes, likely due to dilution in the large spaces.

The conclusion was transmission of aerosol particles between spaces, through the ventilation system, to be undetectable on surfaces and in the air. 

Based on their findings, Royal Caribbean has adopted a few changes to add even more protection for anyone onboard.

  • Adjusting shipboard settings to allow for the maximum air changes per hour
    •  Incoming air is filtered twice when it comes into the ship, including through a MERV (Minimum Efficiency Reporting Value) 13 filter
    • It then branches out across the ship through the system to be filtered again in local areas, say your stateroom or the theater
  • Upgrading to MERV 13 filters throughout the system
  • Equipped its medical facilities with an independent ventilation system and has added HEPA filters for additional precaution
  • Ocean air is continuously drawn in from one side of the ship for cooling and ventilation as the existing air is exhausted on the opposite side of the ship
    • This constant intake of fresh air, combined with the other robust components of the HVAC system, allows for up to 12 air changes an hour in staterooms and 15-20 changes in public venues
    • This frequency is twice more than what is recommended for land-based public venues by ASHRAE, the American Society of Heating, Refrigerating and Air-Conditioning Engineers. 

The MERV rating of a filter refers to how much it can filter particles in the air, with a higher number meaning a higher level of filtration.  The MERV ratings range between 1 and 20. A MERV rating of 13-16 is considered hospital level air quality.

A team of five medical scientists specializing in bioaerosols, led by Josh Santarpia, PhD. – associate professor, pathology and microbiology, UNMC; and research director, chemical and biological programs, NSRI – were called on to understand in detail the role of HVAC systems in spreading airborne particles on cruise ships. 

Mailbag: Should I book flights for my cruise if I'm not sure my cruise ships will sail?

In:
25 Feb 2021
By: 
Matt Hochberg

The uncertainty of when cruises might actually restart sailings again has a trickle down effect on second guessing a lot of other vacation decisions, including should you buy flights for a cruise that may or may not sail.

Every week I pull a popular question that RoyalCaribbeanBlog readers have been asking in case others are curious about the answer.

With the uncertainty of the Alaska cruise sailings this year, how close to our sail date should we have airline and hotel reservations? - Jamie H.

While Jamie asked about Alaska, this question can be applied to anyone with a cruise booked for later this year and trying to decide whether or not to make additional travel plans.

The issue with booking flights or hotels is laying out money for a cruise that may or may not happen, and getting a refund for it later.

Hotels are the easy answer, so let's begin there.

Most hotels allow for refundable deposits, so make sure you are only booking a refundable hotel rate.  In many cases, you many not have to put any money down in advance until either much closer to your check-in date or the day you check-in.

Your best bet is to keep tabs on hotel prices, because prices fluctuate constantly. Book only refundable rates, so you can easily cancel if the cruise ends up being cancelled.

Airfare is a bit more complicated and requires more money upfront compared to hotels.

Before the cruise industry shutdown, locking in flights for your cruise was a game of trying to time prices without risking the perfect flight times selling out.

Today, you have to balance price with flexibility.

Assuming you are willing to go on the cruise you have booked, yes, it is a good idea to book a flight to ensure you can make it to the cruise, but with a few caveats.

First and foremost, you want to book a flight that you will not be penalized for if you have to cancel.

Most airlines have pretty flexible cancellation terms these days, but make very certain there is no penalty for canceling the flight.

Unfortunately, most airlines will not refund you the money if you cancel.  Rather, you will get a credit for a future flight to use later.

Getting an airline credit is fine if it is an airline you fly regularly, but if your flight is on a different airline, this complicates the issue.  Getting a credit for an airline you will never fly is essentially throwing money away.

You could get a full refundable airfare, but refundable airfares tend to be extremely expensive.

An alternative is to book your flight directly with Royal Caribbean through their Air2Sea program.

Air2Sea is Royal Caribbean's airfare option for guests to purchase flights in conjunction with their cruise.

The nice thing about Air2Seas is because you are booking through Royal Caribbean, if the cruise line cancels the sailing, your airfare is fully refundable and the cruise line takes care of the cancellation process.

The cost of airfare will be added onto the cruise amount and payment will follow cruise payment guidelines (90 days prior to sailing).

The downside of using Air2Sea is there is an extra cost for going through the airline, but if you are considering booking international air travel and/or a flight on an airline you never fly, this might still be your best option.

Maximum flexibility is king right now, and the last thing you want to do is spend money on any aspect of your vacation that you have a good chance of never using. 

Whatever you book, be sure to consider the worst case scenario to ensure you don't regret it later.

Waiting to book

Another option is to wait a little bit longer until your cruise is closer.

Air travel is still depressed, and that means less people are flying than before the global health crisis began. 

There is a good argument to be made that waiting a few more weeks or months and perhaps paying a bit more for the flight is worth it to get a better sense of if your cruise will happen or not.

If your flight options are limited because of where you live, or where your cruise is sailing from, then you may not have a choice in waiting things out.  But if you live in a place where flights are plentiful, you might want to give it a little bit more time before pulling the trigger on a flight.

More mailbag questions:

Congress sends bipartisan letter to Canada asking for compromise on cruise ship ban

In:
25 Feb 2021
By: 
Matt Hochberg

Canada's ban of cruise ships for an entire year has compelled the United States Congress to work together in trying to find a better answer.

Members of the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee sent a bipartisan letter to the Canadian Ambassador to the United States yesterday, concerning the one year extension of the cruise ban in Canada.

On February 4, 2021, Canada's Minister of Transport announced a ban of all cruise ships from Canadian waters until February 28, 2022.

The letter was signed by  Congressman Peter DeFazio (D-OR), Congressman Sam Graves (R-MO), Congressman Salud Carbajal (D-CA), Congressman Bob Gibbs (R-OH), and  Congressman Don Young (R-AK).

In the letter, the congressmen shared their concern regarding Canada's ban, and encouraged Canada to "find a mutually agreeable solution."

"We would like to encourage the Government of Canada to work with the U.S. government and industry stakeholders to find a mutually agreeable solution."

The group suggest Canada allowing cruise ships to conduct a "technical stop" whereby Canada would permit cruise ship stops in Canada without disembarking passengers.

"It is our hope that this solution would both address the important health concerns of Canadian authorities and allow cruises to resume with the approval of U.S. Government authorities when it is deemed safe to do so."

Due to U.S. laws, cruise ships that are foreign flagged (which is pretty much every cruise ship on major cruise lines) must stop in a foreign port if they sail from the United States. By Canada denying entry into their waters, that leaves no foreign ports for cruise ships to sail to within the vicinity of Alaska or New England.

The letter includes optimism that the global health crisis is starting to subside, and vaccine rollout will be the impetus for the U.S. Centers for Disease Control (CDC) to allow cruise ships to start sailing again.

The Cruise Lines International Association (CLIA) thanked Congress for acting on behalf of the cruise industry in sending the letter.

CLIA issued this statement after the letter was sent to the Canadian Ambassador, as well as U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken.

"We thank Chairman DeFazio, Ranking Member Graves and other signatories of the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee for their leadership in facilitating dialogue with the Canadian government to determine a path for resumption of cruises to Alaska should cruising resume in the U.S. this year."

"CLIA looks forward to working with the Canadian and U.S. authorities on a solution that addresses the public health needs of Americans and Canadians alike, while responsibly restarting a critical economic driver for the Pacific Northwest and Alaska."

The bipartisan letter is the second notable act by Congress to compel Canada to alter the ban.  

Earlier this month, a joint statement by Alaska's Senators and Congressmen called the Canadian cruise ship ban, "unacceptable".

Royal Caribbean has not made an official change to any of its Alaska cruises it has scheduled for 2021.

"At this time, we have decided not to cancel any sailings scheduled to visit Canada," the line said in a letter sent to travel advisors.

"This includes cruises embarking/debarking from Canada ports, as well as those itineraries touching on Canadian ports of call. It's our hope that your clients will maintain their existing reservations with us as we work with the government and CLIA on potential alternatives."

Passengers currently booked on Alaska sailings have several options:

  • Leave their bookings as they are, and wait to see what happens. All final payment dates have been extended to just 45 days prior to embarkation day.
  • Request a 100% refund of the amount they've paid, to the original form of payment, to be processed by June 30, 2021.
  • Choose a 125% future cruise credit (for sailings booked by April 30, 2022, and departing through September 30, 2022). Credits will be issued by April 16, 2021.
  • Select a modified Lift & Shift, allowing the reservation to be moved to the same date next year (plus or minus one week) on the same ship with the same itinerary.

Carnival cancels May 2021 cruises

In:
24 Feb 2021
By: 
Matt Hochberg

While Royal Caribbean has not, another cruise line has cancelled its May 2021 cruises.

Carnival Cruise Line announced on Wednesday it will continue their suspension of sailings through May 31, 2021.

Cruises from U.S. ports are cancelled through May, but Carnival added that it is unsure when cruises might resume.

In their announcement, Carnival said, "A date for the return of guest cruising operations from U.S. ports has not yet been determined."

Carnival said in a statement that they will continue to work on plans to resume operations, and the vaccine progress is encouraging.

"We continue to work on plans to resume operations and are encouraged by the focus to expedite vaccine production and distribution which are having a demonstrated impact on improving public health."

Prior to today's announcement, cruises had been cancelled through April 30, 2021.

As it has done throughout the pause, Carnival is providing guests on cruises cancelled today the choice of a future cruise credit plus onboard credit package, or a full refund.

Carnival joins a few other cruise lines in canceling their May 2021 cruises, including Norwegian Cruise Line, Disney Cruise Line and Azamara.

What will Royal Caribbean do?

Royal Caribbeans want to know if/when Royal Caribbean may announce a new set of cancellations to match what the other cruise lines have done.

Royal Caribbean rarely gives any kind of warning when a new set of cancellations are going to occur.

Read moreIs there a pattern to when Royal Caribbean cancels cruises?

With final payment dates coming up, many cruise fans are eager to know what will happen to these sailings, as well as how many more of these cancellations we can expect to deal with.

Royal Caribbean Group Chairman and CEO Richard Fain said in a recent interview that cruise lines and the government will consider a variety of factors before cruises can restart.

"We just we're in the midst of a huge surge...over the end of last year," Mr. Fain explained. "Nobody was going to suggest that we start operating in that kind of environment."

"But as that's coming down, as the numbers get better, as the prevalence in society gets better, as the vaccine gets out there more, I think that's when we can start having serious conversations to restart."