Royal Caribbean Blog

Royal Caribbean just celebrated the 51st anniversary of the cruise line's founding, and in all those years, you may recall Royal Caribbean's first cruise ship.

Photo by John Emery

Song of Norway was the first Royal Caribbean cruise ship, and it was a revolution in its own right that paved the way for every other cruise ship and advancement the cruise line would have later.

So what happened to Royal Caribbean's first cruise ship and where is it now?

Birth of a cruise nation

Before Royal Caribbean began operations, cruise ships were built for point-to-point ocean transportation with significantly less open space. Royal Caribbean sought to change all of that with its concept of a cruise ship.

Song of Norway is what we now call a real market disruptor when she debuted. She launched in 1970, and was the first cruise ship ever built for warm-weather cruising.

The concept of a Viking Crown Lounge was designed initially for Song of Norway, which some industry insiders felt was a "crazy idea" that later just became "that funny-looking stack."

Included in her many firsts was the open pool and lounging area, which is now an industry standard on any new cruise ship.

Song of Norway's debut instantly changed the landscape of Caribbean cruises, and her near-instant success provided Royal Caribbean the capital to afford more ships and proved they had the right idea about what people wanted in a cruise ship.

She could carry 724 passengers until she became the first passenger ship to be lengthened and then had a capacity of 1,024 passengers.

Departing the fleet

Song of Norway was the pride of Royal Caribbean's fleet for many years, and served for over 25 years as part of Royal Caribbean.

As the decades passed, she was quickly dwarfed by bigger ships in the industry and within Royal Caribbean. The debut of Sovereign of the Seas, the first "mega cruise ship" in 1988, did to Song of Norway what she had done to the rest of the industry two decades earlier.

Royal Caribbean sold the ship in 1996 to sold to Sun Cruises (part of the Airtours). They changed her name to Sundream.

One major change made to the ship prior to sailing in her home was the Viking Crown Lounge was removed.

Different owners

The latter years of Song of Norway were marked by moving from new owner to new owner.

In October 2004 she was sold again, refitted and became MS Dream Princess for Caspi Cruises, where she sailed from Israel.

In November 2007, she was sold to Pearl Owner Ltd. She was refitted chartered to the Peace Boat organization and renamed the Clipper Pacific, where she was charted to the Peace Boat organization and renamed Clipper Pacific.

By now, mechanical issues were catching up, and Clipper Pacific's world tours had to conclude earlier than scheduled.

Once again, the ship was sold to International Shipping Partners, Inc. and renamed Festival.

She came into service again as a cruise ship, first in 2009 for Caspi Cruises and as of 2010 for Quail Travel's Happy Cruises.  For the 2010 and 2011 seasons, under the name M/V Ocean Pearl.

Final years

Photo by Tony Hisgett

By the 2010s, the end was in sight for Song of Norway (now sailing as MS Ocean Pearl) in China as a floating casino.

Her last voyages were under the name Formosa Queen, which were operated by Asia Star Cruises as a gambling ship. 

Then in November 2013, she met her fate when was sold for scrap and she was broken up in China in 2014.

Song of Norway had many firsts over the years, including the first Royal Caribbean ship to go to the scrap yard.

The first Royal Caribbean cruises that restart in Singapore in December will feature a few less experiences and venues.

Royal Caribbean indicated that certain onboard venues or experiences will operate differently or not be available at all, at least initially.

Specifically, Royal Caribbean states on its website that the Windjammer buffet will not be open for dinner while there is reduced capacity onboard.

Buffets will now be served by crew rather than self-service, and more covered or wrapped grab-and-go items will be made available for your convenience at buffets and cafes around the ship.

In addition, reservations for the Windjammer buffet will be recommended, but not completely necessary. Royal Caribbean says they will "gladly" accommodate walk-ins when availability permits, but reservations are recommended for the Windjammer buffet due to limited capacity.

In addition, while most onboard experiences will be operating normally, some will not due to health concerns including:

• Laser Tag
• Parades
• Themed parties
• Karaoke

All venues will be operating with reduced capacity (mirroring the reduced capacity of the ship) to allow for physical distancing, and some will operate with adjusted or extended hours.

All restaurant seating will be arranged to allow for physical distancing, so guests can eat and drink without face masks while seated, and tables and chairs will be disinfected regularly.

All crew will wear face masks and gloves at all times.

Restaurants and bars will feature QR codes that will let you view menus right on your phone.

Protocols will change over time

If this sounds awful, fret not, because Royal Caribbean has said repeatedly that it intends to change and evolve these policies over time.

The first cruises back will have the most stringent rules, but many of these sort of protocols are not expected to be permanent.

Royal Caribbean Group Chairman and CEO Richard Fain recently confirmed these sort of changes are not forever, "At least in the beginning, it will be an important part of our protocols on board. And I think a lot of people understand the need to protect against transmission on board."

Many of the 74 recommendations are labeled as a temporary change that could be modified or removed later.

Royal Caribbean recognizes that what is happening today in the world can be drastically different than next month or six months from now. As a result, many of the policies are meant to at some point be discontinued over time.

While the official Meyer Werft shipyard webcam has not been updated in over two weeks, the shipyard did provide a new photo of Odyssey of the Seas elsewhere.

In a promotion for tours resuming of the shipyard, a new construction photo has been posted of Royal Caribbean's next new cruise ship.

Meyer Werft's visitor center attracts 250,000 visitors every year, and is home right now to Odyssey and AIDAcosma from AIDA Cruises.

The building dock can be viewed from the 3,500 square meter visitor center on the shipyard site. 

Odyssey of the Seas is under construction in Hall 6 of the German shipyard and this new photo provides a great look at the front of the vessel.

Odyssey of the Seas is due to be delivered to Royal Caribbean in Spring 2021. 

Once complete, Odyssey of the Seas will be Royal Caribbean's second Quantum Ultra Class cruise ship, sailing from Rome in Summer 2021.

After her inaugural season in Europe, Odyssey will then continue its inaugural year in Fort Lauderdale, FL with 8- and 6-night Caribbean itineraries.

Odyssey has been under construction since the steel cutting ceremony in February 2019, but delivery was delayed due to the impact of the global health crisis.

Royal Caribbean will restart cruises in Singapore in December, and with these first cruises back, we have a look at the new health protocols it will implement on these first sailings.

The new rigorous protocols are known as The Royal Promise, and it is our first look at what kind of changes we can expect to find on a Royal Caribbean cruise ship going forward.

These new protocols are based on the Healthy Sail Panel recommendations, as well as in keeping with the local guidelines. RoyalCaribbeanBlog has confirmed these are in line with what can be expected fleetwide.

100% Testing

Royal Caribbean committed to fully testing all passengers and crew earlier this week, so it is not a surprise to see testing will be part of the plan for these first sailings.

Every guest and crew member will be required to test negative for SARS-CoV-2 (coronavirus) prior to boarding — and Royal Caribbean will cover the cost of the test for sailings departing on or before January 30, 2021.All guests must undergo a SARS-CoV-2 test within 48 to 72 hours prior to boarding and obtain a negative result. The cost of your SARS-CoV-2 test is included in your cruise fare for sailings departing on or before January 30, 2021.

Full refunds if you cannot cruise

What happens if you test positive at home, or at the terminal? 

For Singapore sailings, if you test positive and cannot join the cruise, you can still receive 100% Future Cruise Credit in the event you contract COVID-19 within the three (3) weeks before departure and are unable to cruise.

• 100% Future Cruise Credit if you or someone in your travel party tests positive within three weeks prior to the cruise

• 100% Future Cruise Credit if you or someone in your travel party tests positive at the boarding terminal

• 100% refund for you and your travel party if any of you tests positive during your cruise

• Royal Caribbean will cover COVID-19-related costs up to $25,000 SGD ($20,000 USD) per person in your travel party, for onboard medical costs, cost of any required quarantine, and travel home.

Aside from a positive test result, certain circumstances may lead to a denial of boarding for you or your party, including but not limited to:

• Failure to affirmatively state a willingness to comply with our safety and public policies
• Prior to boarding, or at any time during the voyage, failure to comply with our safety and health policies
• Refusal to wear face masks in violation of applicable law or regulations
• A guest who is unable to provide verifiable evidence of a negative SARS-CoV-2 test result
• A guest who provides a negative SARS-CoV-2 test result which we, in our sole discretion, deem unacceptable
• Multiple temperature readings that equal or exceed 37.5 degrees Celsius
• Symptoms outlined in the Health Questionnaire are observed or documented
• Contact tracing reveals close contact with someone with COVID-19
• Refusal to submit to secondary health screening; or a secondary health screening which results in a denial of boarding recommendation by the personnel conducting the secondary health screening.

Upgraded filtered air

Royal Caribbean has promised its ships will have new HVAC system that continuously supplies 100% fresh, filtered air from outdoors to all indoor spaces.

The air is drawn from one side of the ship for cooling and ventilation, then removed via exhaust on the opposite side of the ship. This continual intake of fresh air replaces the air in any space, with a total air change up to 12 times an hour in staterooms, and about 15 changes an hour in large public spaces.

In local spaces, like smaller venues and your stateroom, fan coil units provide an extra layer of protection, continuously scrubbing the air of pathogens, using a high-grade MERV 13 filter that captures aerosols 0.3 to 1 micron in size with 90% efficacy— fine enough to filter colds, flu germs, and coronavirus. 

New cleaning standards

A new set of medical-grade cleaning standards will be implemented on its cruise ships.

All ships are thoroughly cleaned and disinfected prior to every voyage, and consistently and frequently throughout your sailing. 

Frequently touched areas like elevators, escalators, stairways, and promenades will be cleaned every two hours and gangway rails every 20 to 30 minutes during busy times.

Staterooms are cleaned daily only while guests are out of the room, and particular attention is paid to frequently used items and surfaces. 

Reduced capacity

At least initially, Royal Caribbean will only sail with a maximum of 50% capacity in order to foster social distancing and provide enough space for guests. The number of guests onboard may be adjusted in the future as situations evolve.

Signage, ground markings, and crew safety ambassadors will be posted throughout the ship and terminal to kindly remind guests of distancing and other protocols.

Seating in public spaces such as dining venues, theaters, and pool decks will be spread out and elevators will be limited to no more than four guests or one travel party at a time.

Where and when you have to wear masks

All guests and crew will be required to wear a mask onboard.

Specifically, guests should wear face masks in nearly all public settings regardless of physical distancing measures but will not be required to wear face masks in their own stateroom.

There are exceptions, however, such as dining venues, where guests can eat and drink without face masks while seated, provided physical distancing is observed.

Also, guests should not wear masks while engaged in activities that may cause the mask to become wet, like when swimming in pools, or when participating in strenuous activities, such as jogging, running, or fitness classes at the Vitality Spa and Fitness Center.

Note that neck gaiters, open chin bandanas and scarves, and face masks with valves do not meet health authority guidelines and will not be permitted.

What happens if there is a positive case onboard?

The last thing anyone wants is to become "stuck" on a cruise ship due to a quarantine, and Royal Caribbean says it has a "robust, tiered response plan in place" to deal with that sort of a situation.

The tiers increase protocols and vigilance onboard while providing transparent updates to guests the whole way.

In partnership with local authorities, Royal Caribbean has developed transport protocols to ensure we can get you home safely. Thanks to rapid technology-enabled contact tracing, the cruise line will also be able to advise you in the event you had extended contact with any known case.

Rapid SARS-CoV-2 tests can be conducted right onboard in the medical lab that allows for rapid, accurate onsite RT-PCR testing with results in under an hour, alongside a multitude of other evaluative tests.

Royal Caribbean announced it has reached a deal with Singapore to offer cruises on Quantum of the Seas, beginning in December.

An array of 3- and 4-night cruises have been approved by the Singapore Government and begin sailing on December 1, 2020.  

These new cruises are only available to residents of Singapore are now available for booking.

Royal Caribbean has been working with local health and tourism authorities to follow all requirements and guidelines including the CruiseSafe Certification standards, which all cruise lines must obtain prior to sailing out of Singapore.

When cruises resume in Singapore, a variety of comprehensive new health protocols will be implemented onboard Quantum of the Seas including:

• Testing and screening
• Upgraded Heating, Ventilation and Air Conditioning (HVAC) systems that enhance filtration
• Stringent cleaning practices
• Reduced capacities for greater physical distancing
• Expert medical care and onboard facilities

These protocols will continuously be evaluated and enhanced as new procedures and advancements in technology become available. 

"Singapore residents are adventurous travelers, and we are so excited to give them the opportunity to get away from their daily grind and enjoy a thrilling world-class Ocean Getaway, with total peace of mind. While the cruise experience will be different than it was pre-pandemic, we are committed to providing the signature Royal Caribbean holiday that guests know and love, while keeping the health and safety of everyone on board as our top priority" said Angie Stephen, managing director, Asia Pacific, Royal Caribbean International. "I extend my deepest gratitude to the Singapore Government for their collaboration and support and confidence in Royal Caribbean to deliver a safe cruising experience. We share their strong commitment and focus to reignite the local economy and bring back jobs and services supporting the travel industry."

Just yesterday, Royal Caribbean had cancelled all of Quantum of the Seas previously scheduled cruises from Singapore through March 2021.

The first pilot cruises will be:

• Round-trips with no ports of call
• Sailing at a reduced capacity of up to 50 percent
• Only open to Singapore residents

Cruises from Singapore are the only sailings to have been resumed by Royal Caribbean International.  Earlier this week, the cruise line cancelled all of its cruises through the end of of November.

The cruise industry has promised to test every passenger before they get on a cruise ship, and one company will begin offering 15 minute rapid tests in New York airports.

Royal Caribbean joined other cruise lines in declaring a commitment to offer 100% testing of every crew member and guests earlier this week, and the promise of new and faster tests seems to be one step closer.

XpresCheck announced it has opened testing stations in two New York airports that can deliver results in just 15 minutes. The Company has signed a contract securing 100 rapid test instruments. 

The tests are available at the JFK International Airport and Newark Liberty International Airport locations as of October 7. The company has plans to open locations in 60 Large Hub and Medium Hub airports, which are "in advanced discussions".

The new test stations are at Terminal 4 of JFK and level 3 in Terminal B at Newark.

 XpresCheck already operates health and wellness facilities at 25 airports around the world. 

Testing is a major priority for cruise ships

Royal Caribbean has identified testing as a primary focus of its multi-layered strategy for ensuring guests are safe on their cruise ships.

One of the Healthy Sail Panel's recommendations is to have guests get a negative test between 5 days and 24 hours before the cruise.

"All guests joining a ship, regardless of method of travel to the ship, should be tested for SARS-CoV-2 between 5 days and 24 hours before boarding and receive a negative result that is shared with the cruise operator, before coming on board."

Royal Caribbean Group Chairman and CEO Richard Fain recently said he was very excited about the recent advances in testing.

Specifically, Fain believes the development of new test capabilities, combined with decreasing testing costs and speedier results is "staggering."

How will guests get a test in time?

While many cruise fans are eager to do what it takes to get back on a cruise, getting test results in a short amount of time is not an easy task.

With faster tests becoming more readily available, the cruise lines plans become more viable.

The Healthy Sail Panel hopes guests can get a test before they travel in order to minimize the spread. Mr. Fain believes the test results can then get electronically linked to your SetSail Pass, and assuming all is well, you are good to go.

"We do think that we have procedures that we could put in place that gets you the tests, have the test results reported directly to us."

"I think we have processes that will enable you relatively easily to get the tests and have... the confirmation of the negative tests forwarded to us electronically."

When Royal Caribbean cancels cruises during its voluntary suspension, it usually offers guests the option of taking anything they pre-purchased and turn that into an onboard credit for a future sailing.

Not only does this simplify the process of getting a refund and then re-purchasing items for a different sailing, Royal Caribbean sweetens the deal with an extra 25% credit.

If you are thinking of taking advantage of Royal Caribbean's 125% onboard credit offer, here are the most important things to be aware of before you take it.

You can only qualify for the onboard credit offer if you take the future cruise credit

At this time, the elevated onboard credit offer is only available to those guests who opt for the Future Cruise Credit.

If you elect to use Lift & Shift or ask for a full refund, you will not qualify for the 125% onboard credit.

The bonus is only for money you spent

The 125% onboard credit offer only applies to money you spent out of your own pocket, and not any onboard credit that was used for the now cancelled cruise.

If you had onboard credit and used that to pay for Pre-Cruise purchases, you would only receive the offer only for the amount paid, not for the portion paid via an onboard credit.

The onboard credit is non-refundable

Once the onboard credit is applied to a new booking, it has no cash value and is nonrefundable.

Once onboard, any amount unused during the voyage will not be refunded at the end of the voyage.

You can use the onboard credit before or during your cruise

Once you get the onboard credit, it can be used prior to your cruise to purchase items, and/or you can wait to spend it during the cruise.

The onboard credit can be used for both pre-cruise purchases and onboard purchase, so there is no limitation on when you have to use it.

You have to decide to use it by a certain date.

You only have a limited time to decide if you want to opt-in for the 125% onboard credit offer. 

Once you reach the deadline, no adjustments can be made, and an automatic refund of the pre-cruise purchases will be issued.

For the November cruises that were just cancelled, guests have until October 16, 2020 to opt-in.

How the bonus is calculated

The bonus 25% onboard credit sounds great, but you should be aware of how Royal Caribbean determines the exact amount for you.

The new Onboard Credit is based on the amount paid, excluding any previously applied Onboard Credits, and will be based on a per person value.

You have until September 2022 to use the onboard credit

Once you opt-in for the 125% onboard credit offer, you have until April 2022 to apply it to a particular sailing.

You do not have to use it on your next booked cruise. Rather, it is like a Future Cruise Credit, where you can apply it as you see fit.

Once issued, the credit will be valid for use by April 30, 2022 onboard Royal Caribbean sailings through September 30, 2022.

The onboard credit is not tied to your future cruise credit

The good news is you do not have to apply the 125% onboard credit to the same sailing your future cruise credit is redeemed towards.

You can use their Future Cruise Credit on one sailing and their Onboard Credit on another.

In addition to canceling all of its November 2020 cruises, Royal Caribbean has also cancelled Quantum of the Seas sailings through the end of March 2021.

Sailings aboard Quantum of the Seas between December 2nd, 2020 – March 22nd, 2021 have been added to the list of cancelled cruises.

Quantum of the Seas had been scheduled to sail from Singapore between 2020 and March 2021.

Royal Caribbean's website has also removed all Quantum of the Seas cruises for booking until April 2021.

In a statement on Royal Caribbean's website, the cruise line explained the need to "assess" changes for Quantum.

"In preparation for our return to service, we’ve been making changes to our existing itineraries to ensure we meet the evolving needs of our guests and are aligned with any existing travel restrictions. Unfortunately, the following Quantum of the Seas sailings have now been cancelled as part of this change, while we assess our next move for this ship."

Similar to the other cancelled cruises, guests who had cruises booked on Quantum qualify for compensation options, although Lift and Shift is not available for Quantum.

• 125% Future Cruise Credit to book a new cruise by December 31, 2021 for sailings on or before April 30th, 2022.
• 100% Refund. You have until December 31, 2020 to request a refund and deactivate your future cruise certificate.

Royal Caribbean has big plans for Quantum of the Seas, setting the stage for her return to North America in summer 2021 to sail from the Pacific Northwest for the first time when she calls Seattle home in May 2021.

Quantum will join Ovation of the Seas next year and offer 7-night cruises to Alaska, leaving on Mondays.

Quantum of the Seas sailed for a brief period out of Bayonne, New Jersey when she debuted in 2014, but since 2015 has been sailing in Asia.

Royal Caribbean announced on Tuesday it has extended its voluntary cruise suspension by canceling all of its November 2020 cruises.

A statement on its website states all of its sailings are cancelled through November 30, 2020 and the new goal to restart cruises is December 1, 2020.

"After further consulting with our partners at Cruise Lines International Association and in conjunction with the CDC, we have decided to extend the suspension of sailings for our global fleet for all sailings through November 30th, 2020."

"Our goal is to resume operations on December 1st, 2020."

Cruise operations had been suspended through the end of October, but will now be extended an additional month.

In an email to travel agents, Royal Caribbean expanded a bit more on the impetus to extend the cancellations, "Our most recent plan was to resume operation on October 31st, 2020. However, to ensure we have ample time to focus on our healthy return to service initiatives, our global suspension has been extended through November 30th, 2020, with a plan to resume operation on December 1st, 2020."

Compensation

Guests affected by the cancelled cruises between November 1 - 30, 2020 have three options for compensation.

Lift & Shift: Select next year’s sailing with the same itinerary type, sailing length, stateroom category, and within the same 4-week window of the original cruise date, and you can take your existing reservation and move it to next year. Option expires on October 16th, 2020

125% Future Cruise Credit: To account for the inconvenience this has caused, guests are eligible for a 125% Future Cruise Credit (FCC) that is based on the total cruise fare paid at the guest-level and will be automatically issued on-or-before November 4th, 2020 — if neither of the other options is selected.

Taxes and fees, as well as any pre-purchased amenities or onboard packages will be automatically refunded to the original form of payment within 45 days from the cancellation date. 

If you previously opted to take advantage of our Cruise with Confidence policy, the 100% FCC will stand, and this new option is ineligible.

Additionally, if you redeemed your Cruise with Confidence Future Cruise Credit on a sailing that is now cancelled, their original FCC will be reinstated, plus 125% of any amount paid by the guest on the cancelled reservation.

FCCs for sailings in November will automatically be sent via email by November 4th, 2020.

Refund: If you prefer a cash refund, you can do so by requesting this option on-or-before December 31, 2020.

You can expect their refund to the original form of payment within 45 days from the cancellation date. 

If you redeemed a Cruise with Confidence Future Cruise Credit on an impacted sailing and would now prefer a refund instead, Royal Caribbean will process this request in the amount of any new funds paid above the original certificate and, in turn, will reinstate the Cruise with Confidence FCC for future use.

Cruise Planner Purchases: If you had purchased any cruise add-ons, such as shore excursions, drink packages, wifi and more, you could opt to convert your Cruise Planner purchases  to an Onboard Credit valued at 125% of the total amount paid. This offer expires on October 16th, 2020.

What's next for Royal Caribbean?

The latest round of cancellations likely come as no surprise to cruise fans, but the question of when cruises might actually restart again remains.

A few hours before this announcement, Royal Caribbean Group Chairman and CEO Richard Fain did not rule out cruises in 2020.

Speaking at an industry event on Tuesday, Mr. Fain shared a sense of confidence that cruises could still restart sometime in 2020.

"We're going to start with test cruises, I think, and and then a few shorter cruises and and gradually build up as we build up our experience. But I do think that's going to start this year. I'm highly I'm highly optimistic."

Regardless of the cruise line plans, the U.S. Center for Disease Control "No Sail" order remains the most visible obstacle for Royal Caribbean to restart cruises.

The federal agency extended its cruise ship ban by another month, through the end of October, and there does not appear to be any signs that it could end.

The CDC has been adamant in its belief cruise ships are not safe environments during the current global health crisis.

"Cruise ships continue to be an unsafe environment with close quarters where the disease spreads easily and is not readily detected," is the direct rationale for why cruise ships may not sail.

Royal Caribbean, and the entire cruise industry, has been working on comprehensive new health protocols it believes will make cruises safer than any other form of travel.

Just today, cruise lines announced they would implement 100% testing, alongside over 70 new policies that will create a layered approach to keeping guests and crew members safe.

Fain believes a bubble approach to cruise ships could very well be the answer, with testing at the top of that myriad of protocols.

Eagle-eyed cruise fans have spotted what could potentially be the first Royal Caribbean cruise ship to test sailings.

The PortMiami vessel movements calendar lists Navigator of the Seas as in port two times in October, indicating the ship may arrive for a series of test sailings.

• October 15 to October 19
• October 24 to October 28

Each time Navigator of the Seas is at PortMiami, she is scheduled to move between different terminals. On October 17, from Terminal A to Terminal D; and then on October 26 from Terminal A to Terminal G.

This was first reported by CruiseCritic.

Test cruises without passengers

Royal Caribbean has said before it begins offering cruises to the public, it will conduct a series of test sailings to work through the variety of new health protocols.

Executives have said they will start slowly by training crew and embarking on a series of non-revenue test sailings, where Royal Caribbean can rehearse and we can validate the new protocols.

The results will be evaluated by independent observers before a few short sailings begin again.

If those test sailings go well, then short cruises with limited destinations and controlled shore excursions will be offered.

Royal Caribbean International CEO Michael Bayley recently spoke about the idea of using employee-only cruises first, "I said that the first cruise that we will operate through, Royal Caribbean International, will be an all employee cruise, a little bit like a shakedown cruise, because then we can test and take a look at in real-life operations all of the protocols that we're putting into place. And so our first cruise is going to be an employee cruise."

More recently, Royal Caribbean Group Chairman Richard Fain said on Tuesday that test cruises will be first, "We're going to start with test cruises, I think, and and then a few shorter cruises and and gradually build up as we build up our experience. But I do think that's going to start this year. I'm highly optimistic."